please forgive your useless sister.
Joined on 2/27/05
Don't think it's just the nostalgia goggles rtil! It's one of those things that sets us apart from the giants. Makes this place feel special. More personal. More close and homely when everything else is leading more towards big data and AI-assisted tech to best recommend content for their users. It's not just an old-fashioned way to do this manually but: real. It shows real care. It showcases real taste and opinion. It doesn't come across as cheap or artificial. Plus it's all the more honorable to be selected when you know it's be an admirable jury no less.
But yeah, you get into all of that too...good writing. Totes agree. I'm hoping there'll be a new wave of more user-oriented/funded/catering websites, and the popularity with the giants slowly wane away. If people keep posting content there but not sharing as much info, and not contributing so much of monetary value, then maybe we really get that shift. They'll slowly wane away with an increasingly unprofitable amount of content versus actual interest/support, and the money'll start flowing back to those who really need it/use it wisely. Then again I wouldn't want the massive mountain of content that is YT to irreversibly disappear either... will be interesting to see how this all transforms. Hopefully the good way.
youtube is "too big to fail", i can't imagine a site like that vanishing with no backup of the content. obviously, life would go on, but it would be the largest power vacuum in the internet's history. and no one site would be able to take on that massive amount of data and bandwidth. crazy to think about.
sites like NG have an uphill battle to fight though because not only do they have to offer a superior service, they have to actively lure new users, too. i think NG really REALLY needs an app or it will never have a chance. but i don't know what that would look like.
Yet the amount of content it takes in daily is just staggering, probably petabytes of data every second, with such enormous storage costs it feels a bit fragile. Like it'd collapse instantaneously if the cost/benefit ratio somehow changes. World situations, economies, global trends, who knows. Yupp, crazy for sure...
In a strange way the size is both the lure and a downside. It's a large reason why people like it - the community's not yet so big it becomes impersonal, yet if the userbase doesn't keep growing nor can the site itself. I hope we find the perfect balance somehow. Richer users would make for a richer platform without the need to scale up so much it becomes another one of those places we loathe... and yet the better the platform the more potential to get in some unwanted cliques. Maybe I'm overthinking this though. Maybe NG's strong enough to take on anything at this point. Culture and history goes deep.
But with regard to apps... they're basically like websites with limitations and lack of standards when it comes to security/accessibility, and site + app = twice the work to maintain. I'd really rather all places focus on making their sites responsive, so you can browse them on mobile too without feeling like you need it in app form for it to be good enough. It's all about just cutting out the elements that don't work on smaller resolutionsas the site scales down. IMO.
i actually don't know if youtube is profitable - i don't think it is, and that's why they've been radically changing the monetization over the years to more benefit large corporations that would be more willing to pump cash into YT if it means a more favorable environment for them. and based on what is recommended and what appears on trending these days, i'd definitely say that is working for them. the website is practically half consisted of clips from recently aired TV shows these days.
Youtube lost all its personality in death by a thousand cuts. there's still a little bit of it left, but you have to go out of your way to find it. maybe they didn't have a choice if they wanted to keep the show going, i don't know. there's been nothing like Youtube yet so there's nothing to compare it to.
I think the biggest issue with a NG app is getting it approved while maintaining the way adult content here is accessed. Apple and Google Play store have strict rules about being able to access that kind of stuff and while there are workarounds it could possibly compromise the integrity of the desktop site.
Actually... maybe I'm overestimating that YT content stream a bit. Probably just terabytes/second at this point. But still.
Gotta be honest, that very first sentence about the frontpage, that came over like a really massive humble-brag. Maybe cause I'm slightly jelly since I don't have any stuff that ever made frontpage. But I do hope that the 'lack of algorithmic controll' on NG made you appreciate that you quite swiftly get those frontpages here because, even after a decade of abscence, the fellow web 1.0 boomers here (including me) still remember and respect the stuff you put out.
But that whole bussiness of algorithm shenanigans is also the reason I still lurk around on here instead of following artists on twitter or other social media garbage (and also makes me sad when people leave/neglect this place for those). Because of all that nonsense, people have to pump out daily 'content' to stay rellevant, rather than taking the time to just focus on the actual craft. So odds are it creates a big shift from quality to quantity. That part probably applies more to youtube, not sure how much that affects artists on twitter. But I do feel it forces artists needing to become 'social media personalities' to get a bit of attention instead of just sticking to what they do best.
Kinda like I feel how 'the algorithm' was responsible for Egoraptor switching from animating to doing gamegrumps. Sure he does it alright for the 'content' that it is. But I still rather have those 2 or 3 videos of short animation that's freaking awesome, rather than daily videos that slowly turns to background noice, with only little moments of slightly interesting bits sprinkled out.
re: humblebragging - i didn't think about that when writing it and i didn't mean for it to come off that way. i'm not trying to paint myself as a victim of "the algorithm" and i've done well for myself without newgrounds - and while i appreciate that my work gets put on the front page, i don't expect it nor do i consider my own work special or unique, it's 99% anime titties, i bank on that and i have no qualms admitting it. i was merely pointing out the fact that the work displayed there is a lot more diverse than what you'd see on the front page of Youtube or Deviantart or whatever place is designed to simply show you whatever is the most popular or trending.
it is a big game of keep-up, though - if you're not making stuff regularly it's easy to get left in the dust. it causes a lot of burnout in the creative field for independents. which is why niche communities should continue to exist - in a world of 8 billion people, it's better to try and find like-minded people instead of trying to get the whole world to notice you, which i wouldn't wish on anyone.
Ego's a pretty great example of the effect Youtube can have on a creator. it rewards the most low effort content to the lowest common denominator of audience and who could blame him for wanting that? it's money, and while your average viewer is probably some insufferable teen, it's not like you have to interact with them. they watch the ads, you get the paycheck.
After your leave from NG, I followed ur stuff on deviantart for a little while and enjoyed your sketchdumps there the most actually. You still have those lying around for a new scetchdump in the future? And considering posting those here as well?
i don't like making big collages anymore so no but i do post individual sketches i like. i have hundreds of them but the older they are the less likely i am to post them just because they are old and don't represent my work well enough anymore.
Likewise on the frontpage. If it were all picked by an algorithm, i wouldn't look twice at most of it. I get a sense that the content is good, and actively seek things out on my own to get into, rather than the constant stream of shares and suggested content that's tailored to what the big robots think you'd like.
For fuck's sake Facebook, how are my ad interests 'Sport', 'Gardening' and 'Crafts' when i shitpost and tread the knife's edge of posting near-bannable content, having never interacted with public posts? With an anime pfp?
I'm kinda glad they're wrong though... still not 'perfect' enough for some dystopian thing to happen. If NG is alive, people will be there. If it's not, maybe some other place is. A lot can happen in a decade or two.
another good laugh if you have twitter - go here https://twitter.com/settings/your_twitter_data/twitter_interests and see what Twitter thinks you're interested in. it's always 100% wrong for me. fortunately, you can remove them.
Yeh I think that why I still keep coming here. I use youtube mostly for "white noise" these days
i can't fall asleep without Family Guy Funny Moments playing in the background
I agree with a lot of this. I wish we had more creators on these large sites/platforms speaking out about the negative social effects of the Internet zeitgeist. Because you're right, it's not just a problem for the people watching the videos.
This video completely changed the way I interact with the Internet. I would love for the next generation of creatives to take this kind of advice into account and try to create on their own terms.
one of my teachers once told me something about comparing yourself to other artists - what you're seeing is the highlight reel of their work. they don't show you the stuff that they threw out or deleted. they don't show you the bad drawings. the same, of course, applies to photos people take of their lives. and this video does a good job explaining it. especially on a place like instagram where people go to great lengths for that perfect shot, to the extent that there are apps dedicated to basically faking who you are.
Last I heard it's still not. They've been using it to their benefit while cutting other business deals before, but yeah the lack of profitability is probably a large part of why they've been changing things so much. Sounds like a spot on assessment. There's the big shows and then: all the ones trying to get to that level. Amateur content creators are left in the shadows. Also a lot of music, another content area they've really made a business around.
It feels similar to how things have gone for a lot of companies and startups after they've been bought up though. Personality overtime traded in for commercial interest. They keep things similar to keep people in, and slowly make things worse and worse, yet not in so noticeable steps that people leave... similar to the Macromedia > Adobe transition for one. Though you never know how things would've evolved if they hadn't sold either. Maybe it's inevitable with a certain level of growth that overtime things become bloated and/or very generic.
Mmm that'd be an issue too, but before that I think the big one is: time. I believe the last time Tom talked about the potential to have an official app it came down to there just not being enough time to starting anything in addition to the site. I believe it's one of the main motivations for the redesign too, to save on future maintenance work, when there's just one structure that'd work for all devices. Alternative nostalgia themes don't seem very realistic either. Unless the community chips in to make something. Unofficial apps would be cool. To think there's just four people managing a place as massive as this though is really pretty crazy.
if i were them i'd outsource development of an app. but obviously that costs money.
@Cyberdevil Anyway, youtube will never have such freedom as we have here.
It is better to die for a freedom than live in a cage.
@Pecheneg Fur sure. :)
Yeah if they had money to spare that'd be great. :) Have thought about outsourcing before with a lot of the stuff they're doing too. Might be cheaper. Might make for an unprecedented richness of features. Maybe they're not to keen in sharing the source code though...
The contrast of the AIs coldness makes us appreciate and have more gratitude for human co-creatorship
True i feel like youtube and twitter only care about people who have the money. As for here its kinda underground where everyone is accepted from e to a art which is cool.
Same. I'm glad Newgrounds is what it is right now.
No one person, culture, or ideology can take control of the free and open internet. So those who seek power and control have have created machines to do so for them. Thing is, 'alien demi-intelligent machine' is an accurate enough description for corporations, governments, religions, etc. throughout history. Same conflict repeating itself, only this time we has cats with lasers.
I weep for those who will never know the 'net outside the skinner-box wastelands of Silicon Valley. But as long as some corners of the world wide web remain diverse and un-owned-by-stock-markets, we haven't lost the fight yet.
very much true. the internet is a great thing full of great potential and always will be. people always need to push back against the singularity factor and not allow contentedness and convenience of having and digitizing everything in a small handful of places to get the better of them.
I think the idea of a bunch of smaller sites instead of one mega hub is a lot better. I don't think it's nostalgia, I think there's value in not being controlled by "that one mega company". Back in the day, modding communities used to have forums dedicated for how they make stuff and share stuff. Now it's Discord and Reddit, both formats that utterly suck for content that's meant to be regularly searched for. Not to mention the whole "save the kids" saga we're in, where context is thrown out of the window since the algorithm is supposed to babysit now.
People will call me a nerd for this, but I genuinely feel the shape of the net has a visible effect on how people act these days. As in I feel the Terms of Service these companies are enacting, and how they enact them have very real consequences, not just self contained on their services.
IMO, I feel personal tailored advertising is a big no no, as it's usually a massive privacy concern, and honestly doesn't make that much money compared to the hosting prices of these services. Tailored recommendations are also pretty spicy, as it's putting to much trust on an invisible machine, designed to maximize revenue at that given point in time. A lot of it comes down to making a big think about how these services are monetizing themselves, and how honestly. I understand services like Youtube are absolutely huge, and you can't curate everything there. But at the same time, I'll criticize Google for their values behind the service, and not keeping it honest.
Take away: Don't put all your eggs in one basket, these mega services aren't going away any time soon, try to break away from reliance of the algorithm if you can.