Cyberdevil 2020-03-02 06:19:26

Don't think it's just the nostalgia goggles rtil! It's one of those things that sets us apart from the giants. Makes this place feel special. More personal. More close and homely when everything else is leading more towards big data and AI-assisted tech to best recommend content for their users. It's not just an old-fashioned way to do this manually but: real. It shows real care. It showcases real taste and opinion. It doesn't come across as cheap or artificial. Plus it's all the more honorable to be selected when you know it's be an admirable jury no less.

But yeah, you get into all of that too...good writing. Totes agree. I'm hoping there'll be a new wave of more user-oriented/funded/catering websites, and the popularity with the giants slowly wane away. If people keep posting content there but not sharing as much info, and not contributing so much of monetary value, then maybe we really get that shift. They'll slowly wane away with an increasingly unprofitable amount of content versus actual interest/support, and the money'll start flowing back to those who really need it/use it wisely. Then again I wouldn't want the massive mountain of content that is YT to irreversibly disappear either... will be interesting to see how this all transforms. Hopefully the good way.

Cyberdevil 2020-03-02 07:55:07

Yet the amount of content it takes in daily is just staggering, probably petabytes of data every second, with such enormous storage costs it feels a bit fragile. Like it'd collapse instantaneously if the cost/benefit ratio somehow changes. World situations, economies, global trends, who knows. Yupp, crazy for sure...

In a strange way the size is both the lure and a downside. It's a large reason why people like it - the community's not yet so big it becomes impersonal, yet if the userbase doesn't keep growing nor can the site itself. I hope we find the perfect balance somehow. Richer users would make for a richer platform without the need to scale up so much it becomes another one of those places we loathe... and yet the better the platform the more potential to get in some unwanted cliques. Maybe I'm overthinking this though. Maybe NG's strong enough to take on anything at this point. Culture and history goes deep.

But with regard to apps... they're basically like websites with limitations and lack of standards when it comes to security/accessibility, and site + app = twice the work to maintain. I'd really rather all places focus on making their sites responsive, so you can browse them on mobile too without feeling like you need it in app form for it to be good enough. It's all about just cutting out the elements that don't work on smaller resolutionsas the site scales down. IMO.

Cyberdevil 2020-03-02 07:56:04

Actually... maybe I'm overestimating that YT content stream a bit. Probably just terabytes/second at this point. But still.

Guidodinho 2020-03-02 09:13:56

Gotta be honest, that very first sentence about the frontpage, that came over like a really massive humble-brag. Maybe cause I'm slightly jelly since I don't have any stuff that ever made frontpage. But I do hope that the 'lack of algorithmic controll' on NG made you appreciate that you quite swiftly get those frontpages here because, even after a decade of abscence, the fellow web 1.0 boomers here (including me) still remember and respect the stuff you put out.

But that whole bussiness of algorithm shenanigans is also the reason I still lurk around on here instead of following artists on twitter or other social media garbage (and also makes me sad when people leave/neglect this place for those). Because of all that nonsense, people have to pump out daily 'content' to stay rellevant, rather than taking the time to just focus on the actual craft. So odds are it creates a big shift from quality to quantity. That part probably applies more to youtube, not sure how much that affects artists on twitter. But I do feel it forces artists needing to become 'social media personalities' to get a bit of attention instead of just sticking to what they do best.

Kinda like I feel how 'the algorithm' was responsible for Egoraptor switching from animating to doing gamegrumps. Sure he does it alright for the 'content' that it is. But I still rather have those 2 or 3 videos of short animation that's freaking awesome, rather than daily videos that slowly turns to background noice, with only little moments of slightly interesting bits sprinkled out.

Guidodinho 2020-03-02 09:19:30

Little P.S.

After your leave from NG, I followed ur stuff on deviantart for a little while and enjoyed your sketchdumps there the most actually. You still have those lying around for a new scetchdump in the future? And considering posting those here as well?

DaVaP 2020-03-02 12:46:12

Likewise on the frontpage. If it were all picked by an algorithm, i wouldn't look twice at most of it. I get a sense that the content is good, and actively seek things out on my own to get into, rather than the constant stream of shares and suggested content that's tailored to what the big robots think you'd like.
For fuck's sake Facebook, how are my ad interests 'Sport', 'Gardening' and 'Crafts' when i shitpost and tread the knife's edge of posting near-bannable content, having never interacted with public posts? With an anime pfp?

I'm kinda glad they're wrong though... still not 'perfect' enough for some dystopian thing to happen. If NG is alive, people will be there. If it's not, maybe some other place is. A lot can happen in a decade or two.

CoolDrMoney 2020-03-02 14:46:42

Yeh I think that why I still keep coming here. I use youtube mostly for "white noise" these days

YTWindmill 2020-03-02 23:40:59

I agree with a lot of this. I wish we had more creators on these large sites/platforms speaking out about the negative social effects of the Internet zeitgeist. Because you're right, it's not just a problem for the people watching the videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGeU17Df8cw

This video completely changed the way I interact with the Internet. I would love for the next generation of creatives to take this kind of advice into account and try to create on their own terms.

Cyberdevil 2020-03-03 05:49:50

Last I heard it's still not. They've been using it to their benefit while cutting other business deals before, but yeah the lack of profitability is probably a large part of why they've been changing things so much. Sounds like a spot on assessment. There's the big shows and then: all the ones trying to get to that level. Amateur content creators are left in the shadows. Also a lot of music, another content area they've really made a business around.

It feels similar to how things have gone for a lot of companies and startups after they've been bought up though. Personality overtime traded in for commercial interest. They keep things similar to keep people in, and slowly make things worse and worse, yet not in so noticeable steps that people leave... similar to the Macromedia > Adobe transition for one. Though you never know how things would've evolved if they hadn't sold either. Maybe it's inevitable with a certain level of growth that overtime things become bloated and/or very generic.

Mmm that'd be an issue too, but before that I think the big one is: time. I believe the last time Tom talked about the potential to have an official app it came down to there just not being enough time to starting anything in addition to the site. I believe it's one of the main motivations for the redesign too, to save on future maintenance work, when there's just one structure that'd work for all devices. Alternative nostalgia themes don't seem very realistic either. Unless the community chips in to make something. Unofficial apps would be cool. To think there's just four people managing a place as massive as this though is really pretty crazy.

OatmealPecheneg 2020-03-03 06:49:40

@Cyberdevil Anyway, youtube will never have such freedom as we have here.
It is better to die for a freedom than live in a cage.

Cyberdevil 2020-03-03 06:51:11

@Pecheneg Fur sure. :)

Cyberdevil 2020-03-03 08:19:41

Yeah if they had money to spare that'd be great. :) Have thought about outsourcing before with a lot of the stuff they're doing too. Might be cheaper. Might make for an unprecedented richness of features. Maybe they're not to keen in sharing the source code though...

Tyler 2020-03-04 06:43:43

The contrast of the AIs coldness makes us appreciate and have more gratitude for human co-creatorship

Bobby-ryan 2020-03-05 00:25:34

True i feel like youtube and twitter only care about people who have the money. As for here its kinda underground where everyone is accepted from e to a art which is cool.

Ralphtheraven 2020-03-08 06:39:19

Same. I'm glad Newgrounds is what it is right now.

aaaaaa50 2020-03-09 21:32:42

No one person, culture, or ideology can take control of the free and open internet. So those who seek power and control have have created machines to do so for them. Thing is, 'alien demi-intelligent machine' is an accurate enough description for corporations, governments, religions, etc. throughout history. Same conflict repeating itself, only this time we has cats with lasers.

I weep for those who will never know the 'net outside the skinner-box wastelands of Silicon Valley. But as long as some corners of the world wide web remain diverse and un-owned-by-stock-markets, we haven't lost the fight yet.

Amni3D 2020-03-10 08:37:58

I think the idea of a bunch of smaller sites instead of one mega hub is a lot better. I don't think it's nostalgia, I think there's value in not being controlled by "that one mega company". Back in the day, modding communities used to have forums dedicated for how they make stuff and share stuff. Now it's Discord and Reddit, both formats that utterly suck for content that's meant to be regularly searched for. Not to mention the whole "save the kids" saga we're in, where context is thrown out of the window since the algorithm is supposed to babysit now.

People will call me a nerd for this, but I genuinely feel the shape of the net has a visible effect on how people act these days. As in I feel the Terms of Service these companies are enacting, and how they enact them have very real consequences, not just self contained on their services.

IMO, I feel personal tailored advertising is a big no no, as it's usually a massive privacy concern, and honestly doesn't make that much money compared to the hosting prices of these services. Tailored recommendations are also pretty spicy, as it's putting to much trust on an invisible machine, designed to maximize revenue at that given point in time. A lot of it comes down to making a big think about how these services are monetizing themselves, and how honestly. I understand services like Youtube are absolutely huge, and you can't curate everything there. But at the same time, I'll criticize Google for their values behind the service, and not keeping it honest.

Take away: Don't put all your eggs in one basket, these mega services aren't going away any time soon, try to break away from reliance of the algorithm if you can.